The doctrine of election seems dicey. It is the idea that you did not choose Jesus, he chose you. And he chose you way, way, way, before you even thought about choosing him. The reason it seems dicey is it seems like we choose him. I was talking to a woman last night. She has been attending the church for some time. She didn't grow up in church and is struggling to understand it all. I explained it to her and talked about her need to make a decision. It always seems like it makes sense to do that. And if they make a decision we then bow our heads and we pray together and let God know of the decision. As we talked I happened to ask her about how she felt coming to church. She said she loves coming but added that something strange had been happening as of late. Every time she comes to church she cries. She was smiling while she said it and started to tear up and it made her a little embarrassed so she laughed a little. She said she was not usually emotional but it seemed she had little control over the tears that would seem to appear out of nowhere and course down her cheeks during worship. I smiled when she said that. She had not yet made a decision to give her life to Jesus but after she told me that I knew she would. It is a story I have heard before. I had an agnostic orthopedic surgeon tell me the same thing and say, "I never cry and now I am crying every time I come to church. I want you to make it stop." He now plays the guitar in the worship band in the Cafe. For me it is like watching a little lonely child get picked on the playground. He looks up absolutely astounded that he has been picked and for the first time fights back tears of joy instead of tears of sadness as he runs as fast as his legs will carry him to stand by the captain who just shouted his name. I asked my friend last night at the end of our conversation if she wanted to take the final step to Jesus. It sounded like I was asking her to choose but make no mistake, she had been chosen. The tears of joy were already being shed and her legs were just itching to run to the Captain of her soul.
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19 comments:
Oh I love this. None of us would ever choose to serve Jesus if left on our own to choose. We don't usually get an understanding of it all till later, that He had His finger on us from before the foundation of the earth. That last step we take toward Him is nothing more than saying "Yes, I do believe your true Word".
Jesus is not one of many ways to approach God, nor is He the best of several
ways; He is the only way.
A. W. Tozer
If I am the only one in my family that has accepted Christ, does that mean God does not choose the other family members OR we can simply blame it on free will?
Dear anonymous friend: there is no such thing as free will. After the fall of man, it is not in a man's nature to choose God or even seek for him. (Romans 3:11) On our own we simply will not look for God. The only free will you can exercise is to choose him after you are aware that He chose you. You see, if you believe in free will, then you believe that you actually have a "hand" in your own salvation. This is a very arrogant thought! ONLY God himself draws you to Him (John 6:44; 37 and 39) and enables you to believe. If you are indeed chosen by him, God will at some time give you opportunity to believe.
Look at Paul of the Bible. Did he choose Christ? NO! God had already chosen him. God knocked him off his mount and blinded him and then spoke to him. That is an extreme example of how God got his attention. Your other familly members may or may not be chosen by God. Your job at this point is probably to pray that they will be given a heart to hear what the gospel really is. None of us knows exactly how or when someone will be transformed. But your prayers may be the catalyst that indeed point them to Christ. It is the Holy Spirit's job to do the work in the heart. Man can do nothing but point the way and expound the scriptures. But God alone is who saves!
If you want more depth on the issue of pre-destination and being Chosen, 2 wonderful books are:
Chosen By God: R.C. Sproul
and
Chosen for Life: Sam Storms.
They get into the heart of the matter.
Pray sister or brother in Christ. Our timing is not his but it is his desire that not one should perish. God always listens prayer never falls on deaf ears.
May I respectfully on the Pastor's blog suggest your listening to Chuck Swindoll's message today on his website insightforLiving.org. This may be helpful too along with other comments to help and guide you remembering God's word read by and prayed over by you there is no substitute. It is his love letter to each of us personally and his Word is living and will speak to you where you are struggling in your heart over those you love.
Martin Luther said finding truth is like a drunk man getting on a horse. First he falls off one way then he falls off the other. God's sovereignty and man's free will are deep issues. The tendency is to fall off one way or the other. This is one of the areas of theology that is paradoxical. The scripture is full of commands to use our will to obey so there must be free will. Scripture is also very clear on the sovereignty of God which seems to trump free will. Paradox sometimes is the only way for a truth as deep as God can be conveyed to finite human minds. To hold the paradox in the same hand is the toughest part but it seems scripture demands it. Mystery is the word for the day.
Thank you for confirming what I have been thinking, Pastor Coffey!
May God provide us the strength and wisdom to walk in faith!
Since you have quoted Luther, lets get the reality of Luther out there:
"So the foreknowledge and omnipotence of God are diametrically opposed to our free-will. Either God makes mistakes in his foreknowledge, and errors in his action (which is impossible), or else we act, and are caused to act according to his foreknowledge and action. And by the omnipotence of God, I mean, not the power by which he omits to do many things that he could do, but the active power by which he mightily works all in all. It is in this sense the Scripture calls him omnipotent. This omnipotence and foreknowledge of God, I repeat, utterly destroys the doctrine of free will." Martin Luther
Romans 9 says it all. Let the Scriptures speak for themselves!
The hardening of Pharaoh's heart was not done by the passive permission of God!
Awesome God!
Man can write and help clarify but if man could explain it all then we would not need God.
In the scriptures, God has already spoken it . All one needs to do is read it and study it. He reveals much but not all again he is God.
Tragically multitudes are falling into the trap set by satan.The world system forsakes the way of God.
Our job is to spread the gospel always keeping Jesus first and foremost in our witness.
We have a living hope based on the resurrection. We should be eager and diligent about our work. So, back to Joe's original blog this lady accepted the living hope and began a personal relationship with Jesus. Rejoice along with those in heaven. Amen and Amen.
God is sovereign over all things. He is almighty and all powerful. He is holy, holy, holy. No man can come to faith unless he is drawn by the Father (John 6:44) and given to the Son (John 6:37)through the substitutionary atonement on the cross (Romans 3). My sin for his righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21). We are chosen by God before the beginning of time, saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Based on what God does and not what we do. However, sovereignty is a manifestation of control not cause. God does not cause all things. He could, but he doesn't. God is sovereign over the existence of evil and allows it for his purposes but he is not the cause of all evil. God loves all people and wants none to perish (John 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4, 2 Pet 3:9). All have the revelation of God given to them (Romans 1) and are therefore without excuse. So, anon #1, pray for your family and wait on the Lord. I have seen God do amazing things over many years in my family of unbelievers. But it has taken a long time. Ps. Another book with a somewhat different but biblically sound view of salvation is Chosen But Free by Norman Geisler. Scott
Will you be writing any blog posts about your sermon on Naturalism vs. Naturalism Plus?
What does it mean, "free will?" In other words, I have always believed that God loves all his children and God invites all to accept salvation. Many ignore this blessing. Many are distracted by other things and, sadly, miss out. Some make a determined effort to understand God, and make that free choice to embrace the faith. Isn't that free will?
What impresses me about Dr. Coffey's teachings is that he illuminates the grace of God by presenting the facts and ideas that support Christianity. He often adds words like, "If you are to choose to be a Christian" or "If you decide to give your heart to Christ" -- those words indicate to me that we have "free will."
Is that what is meant by "free will"? That we can understand Christianity but still say no to it?
The great theologians of the past write it like this: if you are indeed one of God's elect, you will not have the power to resist God's invitation and choosing. Remember he has chosen you before the foundation of the world. (And this speaks to the fact that He chooses you, you didn't choose Him!) If you are not one of God's elect, you hear it and not choose to believe. Some people think that this is free will. But if God chooses you and you will believe because he has pre-ordained you to believe, then this cannot be called free will. God has already chosen you! These things have already happened in the great cosmos of things before time began. Who is man to think he has the right to choose or not choose God? Mankind has this mistaken puffed up idea that salvation is entirely up to him-IT. IS. NOT. It is entirely up to God! Which make Him all the more glorious. He did not need to choose any one of us. We are all vile, sinful human beings who had nothing redeeming about ourselves and would never (under our own power) choose God to save us. Our fallen nature deems that we always and only look out for and look to ourselves. Romans 3:11 says that no one seeks for God.
The ones who hold to the idea that God universally saves (John 3:16, etc.) forget that all verses of that nature reveal that God gives the salvation invitation to all races, creeds, tribes, regardless of gender, etc. He is not exclusive about who salvation is available to. (That is what "all" mean!) In that day and age, the Jews reacted with horror to the fact that Paul preached salvation to the Gentiles (anyone outside the Jews). They didn't understand that God provided salvation for all (races, etc., etc.,) All of Romans deals with this, and many of the other Pauline scriptures. Individually, however, he has predetermined who will be saved.
Four times the verses in the Bible support this understanding as opposed to the free-will thinking of man.
There are dozens of inductive logical fallacies and scientific errors in the "Naturalism" vs "Naturalism Plus" sermon. Will there be a Blog post about that sermon so questions and comments be asked of Joe?
I always tear up during worship and never understood why. I think you are right, they are tears of joy. God's love seems to good to be true, yet it is.
Many impressive and well-supported posts here, but not very sympathetic to the anguish of readers whose family members seem not "chosen". . .
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